I want to post a more discussion(y) topic today. I was pondering the recent implosion of many endgame guilds today and was wondering whether an ICC style debuff could have prevented it. By ICC style debuff I am referring to the gradual nerfing of Icecrown Citadel over time by the buff that increased all health, healing and damage done by a certain percent. This started at 0% with the release of ICC but grew by 5% at a time until it maxed out at 30% before Cataclysm. A lot of the guilds on my server have broken up largely because of progress stagnation. They got stuck on a various boss, be that Cho’gall normal or some heroic boss. They got stuck for so long that many of their guildies got fed up and either stopped playing or left the guild in search of greener pastures. Most of these guilds were formed during Wrath of the Lich King and I suspect that many of their members were relatively new to the game and had never experienced raiding where there was not some sort of prize every week.
I remember leading a guild to a realm second Sartharion and three drakes. This encounter took us over 5 weeks to defeat. Just one encounter! Ok so we also got to steamroll through naxx and Malygos every week but Sartharion 3D was our only goal. It was incredibly frustrating wiping week after week on one boss. It was worth it though. When we finally downed him the euphoria was so much higher than anything I have felt after downing any boss in WOTLK or Cataclysm. Isn’t there some famous phrase about the “wait makes the win all the sweeter,” or something like that? These newer players are not used to having to work for something for a long time.
That is why I wonder whether it would have been good to implement an ICC style debuff for the first tier of Cata content. Now I know that many of you hardcore raiders who are working your way through the hardmodes will say, “good riddance,” to the more casual players that have “burned out.” I disagree. I think it is a great thing for these new players to be able to come into a game that many of us have been playing for 5 years and be able to experience the same endgame content as us. They will not get onto the hardmodes, perhaps, but they should be able to see the content that is produced by their monthly subscription. Indeed many of the, “hardcore,” guilds on my server are still struggling to progress much past 4/12 HC mode.
With Firelands fast approaching wouldn’t it make sense to make the content a bit easier for them?
I realise that the ICC debuff was only brought in because of the vast vacuum of new content between ICC release and Cataclysm but I think it could work equally well here. I am not asking for them to make it so that every raider will clear the raid instance or HC modes before the next tier is released, but simply to make it so that they feel like they are constantly making progress. If nothing else, then a constantly increasing buff gives them a reason to remain in the game in the hope that they will be able to defeat the encounter that they are stuck on in the future.
I guess it is quite a delicate balancing act for Blizzard to perform. They have to make the encounters hard enough for the hardcore through hardmodes and easy enough for the casuals with normal modes. At the same time they have to make sure that casuals don’t eventually get the same titles and loot as the hardcore as this would upset the hardcore whilst they have to make it so that the casuals can still progress in the game. At a time when Rift and other things are nibbling away at Blizzard’s subscriber base (albeit slowly) I can’t help wondering whether an ICC style debuff would have helped them to hold onto some more players. What do you think?
No Charles, no.
While I think the buff was a good thing for ICC, it shouldn’t be implemented for any raid short of the final tier. Right now the ‘buff’ you are getting is increased gear for you raid group.
Also as you mentioned, Firelands is on the horizon. Once a new tier of gear is reached, you’ll see PUGs facerolling BoT and BWD on their way to glory. GDKP runs will sprout up again, and you’ll see a new flood of titles racing around.
Final tier? Sure. Everyone should get to kill the last boss before a new expansion. Helps close things up. First tier? Get raiding or get waiting is my opinon.
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@Adagamorix I don’t see how the gear increase is any different from the increases you were getting in ICC. When you stagnate on progression you stagnate whether it is on the first raid tier or final. You will not be getting more gear in either situation will you? I agree that when 4.1 hits then people will steamroll BOT etc for the titles. This is actually another bone of contention I have with the way raid titles are handed out. I don’t see why the titles are not made unobtainable after the next tier of raids hit. Or make it like the Algalon achievement that requires you to kill him with a set average ilevel of gear. Titles should be earned not just given out imo.
I think this is a hard thing to judge. The buff kept my guild alive through ICC where 13 months of the same content was really dragging but at the same time it made me feel cheap but that was because I knew I, individually, was capable of downing the content without such a buff. However, that didn’t mean everyone else in my guild was that capable. Nearly half of them needed at least a 10% buff to keep up with the top players. Of course, with the top players also having a 10% buff, the lesser players were still behind.
In the end it enabled mediocre players to play at the minimum required level to defeat encounters. I think that is a good thing. WHEN do introduce that, though, is the real question. The difficulty difference between Regular and Heroic in T11 is quite large and, as you’ve noted, many guilds have crumbled because of it. Blizzard is a business and their profit is of big concern. They’ve set their business model on making as many people happy as possible. If NOT having an ICC-esque buff were to cause the departure of many players, they would introduce it. The cool (IMO) thing about such a business model is that it does in fact keep the game alive because it keeps people engaged.
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I agree that it is a difficult thing to judge Lument. Obviously we do not have to figures for the number of guilds disbanding and players quitting due to this but I suspect that it is higher than it has been throughout Wrath. Maybe Blizzard are ok with this as they are definately retaining a lot of the hardcore players by keeping the hardmodes “hard.” Hardcore players must have a more long term value than casual players who frequently cause their subscriptions etc.
The difference is that in this case of Tier 11 raids there will be a natural debuff – tier 12. There was a lot of criticism, accepted by Blizzard, that making each tier obsolete in Wrath was not a good thing – mostly in that Ulduar, which was a superb raid and quite challenging compared to other Wrath content, was made obsolete by the Bore of the Champion.
This was in contrast to TBC. Despite badge gear, guilds tended to not jump right into raiding Black Temple or Mount Hyjal at any point in the expansion – even when Sunwell was the progression raid. They still went to tier 5 raids first, and many did not kill the end bosses of those raids. When BT and MH were progress, many guilds still ran tier 4. When SSC and TK were progress, many guilds had not completed Kara! When Kara came out it was hard.
Very few guilds went anywhere near Sunwell. Sunwell was hard and remained hard. The idea of the ICC buff was to avoid that situation and allow people to access content such as hard mode ICC before the expansion ended. The buff was needed because there was no large jump in gear level that would make it significantly easier – even in full ICC 25 epics without the buff many fights would be very hard.
The feeling I get is that the intention this time is for tier 11 to be made easier by the arrival of tier 12. Access to the tier 11 meta achievement will be granted by access to tier 12 gear for many guilds. I expect the final tier of this expansion to see the buff system return.
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I agree that the fact that you used to have to run Kara before going into SSC/TK or even Gruul was a good thing. It made it feel more like a progression. I just can’t help wondering whether the quitting of so many newer players who never experienced those days may be worse than the detriments of a buff system. I also agree that the buff is sure to make a return at the end of the expansion. I think this is a good thing and that all players should be able to see the end boss of an expansion on normal mode if they put the effort in. The fights always feel that bit more “epic.”